Michael Jordan talks golf, trash-talking, nervous putts and Tiger

With the final episode of ESPN’s “The Last Dance” documentary scheduled for this weekend, PGATOUR.COM is revisiting content featuring NBA Hall of Famer Michael Jordan, who was an honorary guest and assistant captain for Fred Couples and the U.S. Team at The Presidents Cup in 2009. Here are excerpts from PGATOUR.COM’s 30-minute interview with the former University of North Carolina All-American after he played a practice round at TPC Harding Park with Couples, Hunter Mahan, Lucas Glover and Sean O’Hair.

MORE JORDAN: His golf origins story

PGATOUR.COM: How did you get interested in the game?

MICHAEL JORDAN: “Davis [Love III, fellow North Carolina athlete]. I actually left school early to go pro in ’84 – and one of my friends, John Simpkins, was on the golf team. And he took me out to play with another basketball player, Al Wood, and Davis Love. I made a par the first time I ever played, and I’ve been hooked ever since. I don’t know; I may have been better then than now because I didn’t know what to expect. But I love the game of golf. It takes a lot of the competitive juices that I left on the basketball court to now.”

PGATOUR.COM: Do you remember the first round you ever played?

JORDAN: “What I shot? Oh no. It was well over 100 – without a doubt. I was just trying to understand all the rules and when do I hit a 9-iron and when do I hit that 6-iron, blah, blah, blah. But I was hooked either way.”

PGATOUR.COM: What about the game challenges you?

JORDAN: “Consistency. I mean, being able to shoot when you think you’ve got a good rhythm about the game, then you go to bed at night and you wake up thinking that you’re going to use the same philosophy as the day before and the next thing you know, it doesn’t work. And you have to somehow make adjustments and things like that. So the game of golf, it gives me a lot of different looks. I guess it’s more difficult for me than some of the guys over here because they’ve been taught from when they’re young kids. Whereas me, I’m a basketball player. I’ve been taught a lot of the fundamentals. It’s easy for me to wake up each and every day and play a certain style and have certain expectations. Golf, I’m kind of by the seat of my pants. Whatever works that day, I ride with and the next day it can be totally different. It drives me totally, totally insane that I can not capture those fundamentals each and every day to be as consistent. Certain days I think I have it, and I can shoot a good round for the first three days and then the fourth day I just totally lose it. That’s how difficult the game is.”

PGATOUR.COM: Have you ever been as nervous over a putt as you were over a free throw to win a game?

JORDAN: “Oh yeah, without a doubt. I was nervous today. The first tee, I was very, very nervous. Every athlete wants to belong wherever he’s participating. Even in golf, I want to feel that I belong. No, I’m not at the same level. I’m in amazement of their golf swings and how to hit and how to focus over the ball. I don’t want to take away from what they do. But as a competitor I want to perform at my highest. I want to do well. So I put more pressure on myself that they probably even know. And I try to relieve that pressure by a lot of different things – joking, kidding around, blah, blah, blah. I was more nervous today over any of my shots than I’ve ever been in my life.”

PGATOUR.COM: You were one of basketball’s better trash talkers …

JORDAN: “I was.” (smiling).

PGATOUR.COM: Do you think there’s a place for that in golf?

JORDAN: “Not in competition because the game doesn’t dictate that whereas my game dictated that. But in something like this, as far as teaching tools, yes. It gives you a certain inner confidence about yourself. If you’re going to talk trash that means you believe you can do it. Once you believe you can do it, you don’t have to say it anymore. You can let your game do all your talking.”

PGATOUR.COM: When did you become so philosophical?

JORDAN: “In my later years, as you get older. Obviously, when you start trying to repeat things, you have to play tricks with your mind to say that you’ve never won it so you can stay focused. I think that did it for me in terms of challenging myself from within. A lot of times, I had to play tricks with my mind to think that hey, I’ve never won it before. And to win it again. And to win it again. Knowing that everybody’s coming at me with the hunger that I had to create within myself. That’s where the mastery came about my personality, understanding my competitive nature and playing tricks with my mind to get me to focus that I’ve got to win this game. And now I’m trying to pass it on to these guys. It’s very difficult in a team game to an individual game. But there are a lot of similarities. ... The game is very, very mental and that’s where Tiger [Woods] is so much stronger than anybody else. It’s not his game. Obviously he’s good and he can swing, but I think what makes Tiger better than most is his mental game.”

PGATOUR.COM: What attribute do you think guys need to have to be successful in match play?

JORDAN: “I think it’s confidence. Every time I go into a big, heated game – and this is one of the things Freddy wants me to pass on to these guys – what is my thought process? I try to think of all positive things. The shot in Utah. The shot in North Carolina. Those things that get me to this place of comfort, relax, be able to fulfill what my objectives may be. ... It’s a certain place, a certain zone you can get to and nothing matters. From my perspective, if I can get them to understand the difference between the two and how to get there and how not to get there, and how to recognize when you’re there and when you’re not, I think that’s going to help them not just here this week, it’s going to help them when they leave here. But it’s obvious they can get to that point. The results say that. You birdie four of the first five holes, what are you thinking? Is it I’m enjoying my golf with Michael Jordan, I out here with friends, there’s no pressure? Well, get back to that same point, even when you’re in competition. It’s easy to get back there. You just have to teach yourself.”

PGATOUR.COM: When did you meet Freddy? Can you talk about your relationship?

JORDAN: “I represented Gatorade and Gatorade went to Freddy and had a contest where you could auction or you could buy a round with Freddy Couples and Michael Jordan, and that had to be in 1988. We flew down to Wellington, Florida, and played a private golf course on a Monday afternoon. We played 18 holes, and I said to Freddy, they’ve got a game in Miami, a football game, or Tampa, but I think it was Miami. Let’s hop on a plane and go down. We hopped on a plane and went down there. It was the first time I ever met him, and we’ve been friends ever since.”

PGATOUR.COM: What did you think when you heard on the news that Freddy had made you an assistant captain?

JORDAN: “I texted him. I said, Freddy, what am I expected to do? Is this a joke? And he said, no, I want you to be a part of my staff and I just want you to help us understand what team sport is about. I really didn’t believe it. I said, well, I’m willing to do whatever, but you know, call me back and let me know if you’re serious because at the same time he also said Robin Williams. So that made me think it was more or less a joke or maybe they just threw a question out, who would you like to see as an assistant coach? And he called me back and said, yeah, I want you to be a part of the team. I said, well, you know how much I love the game. I’ve been to every Ryder Cup since Valderrama. And I don’t know how I could help, but I’m here to help. The last thing I want to do is to take away from their spotlight. He said, nah, don’t worry about that. I said, OK, whatever I need to do, you just let me know, and he’s been leading me along this dark alley over the last six or seven months. I didn’t really believe it until they sent someone to my home to get me fitted for the outfits. That’s when I really knew, you’re serious.”

PGATOUR.COM: You’ve made a ton of game-winning shots in your career. Who would you pick if you needed somebody to make a putt for you?

JORDAN: “That’s a tough one because I was there when Justin Leonard made it in Boston. The obvious would be Tiger, and right behind him would be Phil [Mickelson]. Once again, when you talk about golf, whoever has the confidence and believes in himself can step to the forefront and make a putt. It’s easy. I’ve got to go with the obvious with Tiger. Then I would go with Phil because when you look at who’s won more majors after that and majors are big events so I would have to go with Phil. But when I look at our team, I’m not afraid if any of our guys got to make the putt for the big championship. Obviously, I’m biased about it but by the time we finish working on them, everybody’s going to think they’re Tiger Woods.”

PGATOUR.COM: Tiger has talked about you a lot, and you’ve mentioned him several times today. How has your relationship evolved?

JORDAN: “We’re like big brother-little brother. I’m the big brother, he’s the little brother. I don’t crowd him. I keep my distance because at certain times a little brother’s got to learn how to survive. But when I see him struggling, when he’s battling with himself a lot of times, I text him and say, is everything OK, blah, blah, blah? And he’ll text me back or he’ll say can I call you in five or 10 minutes and we get on the phone and talk through whatever issues he might have. And the advice, it’s not much advice when a guy’s walking through the same things that you’ve basically have gone through but with a little bit more focus. The microscope is a little bit bigger for you because the expectations have been set, by not just me but have been set by you in terms of what the public and press expect. So you’re kind of a product of your own problem in a sense. The second thing is stay true to yourself – whatever, look in yourself and stay true to that. In terms of how often we talk, we may talk every third or fourth day just to check in, how’s the kids, how’s the family. But I can sense and see stress in him and see that he’s battling himself more than he should and that’s when I call or text him to see if everything’s ok. I think a lot of that’s happened more as of late because his father’s passed. His father was that person he could call and do that. When he calls me now, I say, what would your father think and bring you back to home. I don’t want to take the credit. You know what to do. You just need someone to tell you or reinforce what you’re thinking. That’s what I’m here. It’s a check and balance. That’s evolved over the last 12-13 years that I’ve known him. I consciously to some degree stay out of his way but I’m close enough it he needs me. But at the same time, these are trials and tribulations that you’ve been built for since you were a kid. You just need someone to tell you. We joke around all the time.”